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Ideas for Faction Upgrades Megathread

 
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SaltedSalmon
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:38 am    Post subject: Ideas for Faction Upgrades Megathread Reply with quote

OHAYOOO
Devs want/need more ideas for faction upgrades, possibly some that consume renown.
I'm not aware of all the details, but since next breath is adding more endgame stuff, they want more reasons for people to spend Renown. Kandarin in particular has said, "Long run we want a lot more upkeep-requiring faction upgrades, and a lot that are unique to one side", so of course that means more ideas are needed.

In particular, upgrades that are only available to certain alignments (Like Arcane Lodestone) or have repeated costs (Those that are stackable like Lead Paint or Daily like the Gunsmith Table) are favored because they generate more differences between different factions.

Currently, all faction upgrades in game are listed in https://wiki.nexuscla.sh/wiki/index.php?title=Factions#Faction_Upgrades
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SaltedSalmon
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Idea which probably already made it in but isn't coded yet:
Spawning a big boss type of NPC for renown.


My own suggestions:
Influence (All factions, daily cost) - Every day, at the same time you would pay for the renown cost of this faction upgrade (Barring getting it for the first time), your stronghold's tile gains +100(?) infusion towards your alignment, and surrounding tiles gain a quarter of that.
Forced Influence (All factions, purchasable multiple times) - Your stronghold tile gains 100 infusion and surrounding tiles gain a quarter of that. Less efficient than letting "Influence" run daily.
Conquest (All factions, free, but only if stronghold is in a opposed outer plane, such as a Evil Stronghold in Elysium) - While this is active, your stronghold location is revealed regardless of level. You always revive in your stronghold's plane, and infuse the ground when you kill there.

Reinforced Stronghold (All Factions, daily cost) - Fortifications gain 25% resistance to all damage types, except fire.

Corpse Storage (Transcended Factions, daily cost) I've been trying to spitball a upgrade aimed at Liches and Revenants, since both work with corpses. My best idea so far was this, although I think its a bit lacking:
"While this upgrade is active, faction mates gain a action to teleport corpses on their tile to the stronghold for a certain cost (1 AP?). Corpses in the stronghold decay at decreased speed/Corpses Zombify instead of fading".

Research Chamber (Evil Factions, One Time Purchase) - Sacrifice large quantities of Blood/Soul Ice for renown(?)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think one thing I would like to see is the option to change tile type entirely. Current mechanics might not allow for that, but it would be very interesting. I imagine a couple different special tile types that might only appear under these circumstances, with delicately balanced drop tables and possibly other faction gameplay based bonuses.

But that's a significant effort compared to what's probably realistic in the short term.
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Fellis
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could there be a third level of safe? Right now factions have a general whole faction safe, individual factional footlockers, could there be a multi-access safe restricted to leaders or lieutenants + leaders? It would be another thing to spend renown on and I think it would be useful for holding rare items or spare enchanted stuff (grenades) that faction members of a trusted status could have access to without restricting other players from the general safe.

I don't think raiding safes is an issue, just a thought to help logistics and not having someone with valuables in their footlocker disappear due to life and gear disappearing into the ether.


Last edited by Fellis on Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fellis
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Different suggestions, different post

Renown flavor upgrades are cool and all, but they only modify the INSIDE of the faction, I'd like to see flavor upgrades that modify the OUTSIDE of the tile so people can see how cool and good the faction is flexing on spending renown on trivial flavor stuff.

Also renown/day upgrades for having holiday decorations that change seasonally or maybe a editable text box for additional description outside:

This faction has a floppy inner tube man celebrating pungenday with a sign saying "now less pungent!"
This faction has a shrine outside with pristine doors for the celebration of Namm Day
This faction has a giant cobweb with a facsimile wyrm master and a scarecrow behemoth holding a sign that says "Boo!"
This faction has a shrine outside with several broken doors for the celebration of Anti-Namm Day. You notice several craters from smiting
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Alyss
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know how I missed this thread, lol. Gotta give it a rundown now.

I'm not really qualified to comment on Infusion. I don't really like 'Conquest' guaranteed spawning you in a certain plane gameplay-wise, even though it is thematic, although working your way across Elysium/Stygia (assuming they're anything like current) might not be that much more efficient to get to your SH than portaling into Laurentia and back to there because of how the outer planes are.

Reinforced Stronghold: No from me dog. I personally love Fire element damage, but that's not the buff it needs if any, haha. Fortifications already kinda unduly mess with some attackers when it comes to clearing them.

Corpse Storage: I actually like this, but sending a body back to your SH should clean it of its Eye of Death information. Servitor of the Grave + Eye of Death is already a very efficient and very yikes-tier combo for hunting, and this is basically a better version of that as you only need the Revenant(s) to be around to glean the info from it.

Research Chamber: I like the idea of ice consumption on a faction basis, but trading them for renown seems a little underwhelming. How about turning them into any item (or perhaps any 2 items?), randomly-selected from a very large pool (different table for Blood Ice and Soul Ice), mostly containing pretty junky grind items but also some really desirable ones, like Amphetamines, potions and rare weapons?

Fellis' tiered safe: Not much to say about this, I think it's a great idea and should help with the seemingly-common problem of some new player anxiety over taking stuff from the safe in case they hit something absolutely needed.

Outside tile flavour text upgrades: Yes please! I don't know how implementable this'd be, but this is actually some super-cute pizazz. Also, a shrine to Namm would allow for a literal 'When you get behind these DOORS... Namm's bois are gonna womp womp womp you' message to be delivered to any and all prospective raiders. :triumph:

Final suggestion that was definitely already made in the thread and I'm definitely not just banging my brass hi-hat: Remove Homing Beacon. Or at least, massively increase the cooldown on how often they can be consumed (once per fortnight preferably, even once per week is hugely tactically-beneficial). The item definitely had good intentions, and it's neat to escort your faction members on a stronghold move, but bottom-line is the item is extremely broken and unhealthy used either for counter-raid response or for raiders to evac after a close-run capture. Word of Recall is barely balanced on Archon haha, it going on an entire faction is a wide oof.
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SaltedSalmon
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alyss wrote:
I don't know how I missed this thread, lol. Gotta give it a rundown now.

Okay so, one thing before I start replying.
I think the "Remove Homing Beacon" comment is in a bad location. Its something that deserves a bit of discussion and while this thread is about faction upgrades, the conversations really won't mix together. It'll quickly get cluttered.

Moving on from that,
On Reinforced Stronghold-- The no fire resist thing is not something I came up with. Fire spells will deal extra damage to structures in B5, giving fortifications resistance to it would make that useless.

On Research Chamber, I wondered what to give as a reward for a bit. I was initially wondering if renown was a good idea, but now, I say we should try it in a time where renown upgrades are popular.
The most important thing about it is that it'll make people feel like they're directly contributing to the faction.
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Kandarin
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Idea which probably already made it in but isn't coded yet:
Spawning a big boss type of NPC for renown.


Yep. This (or other "spend lots of renown for big cool thing") effects are one possible avenue we'd be considering specifically at the end of breath. Some factions have huge stockpiles of renown that exceed anything they could spend it on due to brokenly overpowered methods of renown gain in the last breath. We're probably zeroing it at breath end, and people would feel better having something to spend it on.


Quote:
Influence (All factions, daily cost) - Every day, at the same time you would pay for the renown cost of this faction upgrade (Barring getting it for the first time), your stronghold's tile gains +100(?) infusion towards your alignment, and surrounding tiles gain a quarter of that.
Forced Influence (All factions, purchasable multiple times) - Your stronghold tile gains 100 infusion and surrounding tiles gain a quarter of that. Less efficient than letting "Influence" run daily.
Conquest (All factions, free, but only if stronghold is in a opposed outer plane, such as a Evil Stronghold in Elysium) - While this is active, your stronghold location is revealed regardless of level. You always revive in your stronghold's plane, and infuse the ground when you kill there.


Upgrades that boost infusion gain (or other means of territory control) close to your stronghold would be neat.

Quote:
Reinforced Stronghold (All Factions, daily cost) - Fortifications gain 25% resistance to all damage types, except fire.


In Nexus War, there were upgrades that boosted maximum ward strength. We've held off on them (or other direct hard stat stronghold HP boosters) due to the state of the raid meta, but would consider bringing them back in B5.

Quote:
Corpse Storage (Transcended Factions, daily cost) I've been trying to spitball a upgrade aimed at Liches and Revenants, since both work with corpses. My best idea so far was this, although I think its a bit lacking:
"While this upgrade is active, faction mates gain a action to teleport corpses on their tile to the stronghold for a certain cost (1 AP?). Corpses in the stronghold decay at decreased speed/Corpses Zombify instead of fading".


This would be crazy powerful if it retained corpse identity, for the reasons Alyss gave. If it did this it would have to be quite expensive, and possibly Unaligned-only.

Quote:
Research Chamber (Evil Factions, One Time Purchase) - Sacrifice large quantities of Blood/Soul Ice for renown(?)


This gives me an idea for something you can sacrifice those stray spellgems in the safe for.

Quote:
I think one thing I would like to see is the option to change tile type entirely. Current mechanics might not allow for that, but it would be very interesting. I imagine a couple different special tile types that might only appear under these circumstances, with delicately balanced drop tables and possibly other faction gameplay based bonuses.

But that's a significant effort compared to what's probably realistic in the short term.


Tiles can store information on what tile type they flip to if infused enough. On the other hand, that's a lot of extra map dev information - creating four times the tiles in case someone buys a specific upgrade.

An upgrade that overrides any tile to a specific tile for all it matters (e.g. Angels can turn anything into an Ivory Tower) is pretty doable.

Quote:
Could there be a third level of safe? Right now factions have a general whole faction safe, individual factional footlockers, could there be a multi-access safe restricted to leaders or lieutenants + leaders? It would be another thing to spend renown on and I think it would be useful for holding rare items or spare enchanted stuff (grenades) that faction members of a trusted status could have access to without restricting other players from the general safe.

I don't think raiding safes is an issue, just a thought to help logistics and not having someone with valuables in their footlocker disappear due to life and gear disappearing into the ether.


Raiding safes generally isn't an issue - I can count on one hand the number of times in Clash that anyone has actually abused a safe, and safe logs are a good deterrent. However, there's a general understanding that anything you put into a safe is acceptable for anyone to take, which can be a problem if you're trying to share high-value gear specifically among your core raid crew without micromanaging your footlocker. This would require database changes but it's a cool idea.

Quote:
Different suggestions, different post

Renown flavor upgrades are cool and all, but they only modify the INSIDE of the faction, I'd like to see flavor upgrades that modify the OUTSIDE of the tile so people can see how cool and good the faction is flexing on spending renown on trivial flavor stuff.

Also renown/day upgrades for having holiday decorations that change seasonally or maybe a editable text box for additional description outside:

This faction has a floppy inner tube man celebrating pungenday with a sign saying "now less pungent!"
This faction has a shrine outside with pristine doors for the celebration of Namm Day
This faction has a giant cobweb with a facsimile wyrm master and a scarecrow behemoth holding a sign that says "Boo!"
This faction has a shrine outside with several broken doors for the celebration of Anti-Namm Day. You notice several craters from smiting


One of the recurring credit items in Nexus War (I think?) and Nexus Clash was the ability to spend credits to commission an admin to change a tile type and description to something you want. You'll notice we no longer list that as a service because for every good request (AHF's stronghold!) there would be several requests (mostly from people who no longer play) to use the offer to change major aspects of the game world's tone.

If a benefit like this was tethered to a faction stronghold, most of these objections are moot. An admin doesn't have to make it happen and anyone who doesn't like what a faction's custom stronghold description says could raid them.

Quote:
Final suggestion that was definitely already made in the thread and I'm definitely not just banging my brass hi-hat: Remove Homing Beacon. Or at least, massively increase the cooldown on how often they can be consumed (once per fortnight preferably, even once per week is hugely tactically-beneficial). The item definitely had good intentions, and it's neat to escort your faction members on a stronghold move, but bottom-line is the item is extremely broken and unhealthy used either for counter-raid response or for raiders to evac after a close-run capture. Word of Recall is barely balanced on Archon haha, it going on an entire faction is a wide oof.


The cost of this upgrade is its counterbalancing feature. Any faction that is shooting off beacons on every raid is losing more renown than the raid can get them. The reason this strategy is viable is because of the huge renown stockpiles some factions have from Breath 3, which are probably going away at breath's end as described above.
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Badziew
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kandarin wrote:
Quote:
Corpse Storage (Transcended Factions, daily cost) I've been trying to spitball a upgrade aimed at Liches and Revenants, since both work with corpses. My best idea so far was this, although I think its a bit lacking:
"While this upgrade is active, faction mates gain a action to teleport corpses on their tile to the stronghold for a certain cost (1 AP?). Corpses in the stronghold decay at decreased speed/Corpses Zombify instead of fading".


This would be crazy powerful if it retained corpse identity, for the reasons Alyss gave. If it did this it would have to be quite expensive, and possibly Unaligned-only.


Alternative idea/variant: faction upgrade that gives faction members an ability to teleport their own corpses to stronghold, or maybe even teleports them automatically on member's death.
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SaltedSalmon
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Badziew wrote:

Alternative idea/variant: faction upgrade that gives faction members an ability to teleport their own corpses to stronghold, or maybe even teleports them automatically on member's death.

That's not very fun, since it denies corpses from classes that use them.
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SaltedSalmon
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kandarin wrote:

Quote:
Reinforced Stronghold (All Factions, daily cost) - Fortifications gain 25% resistance to all damage types, except fire.

In Nexus War, there were upgrades that boosted maximum ward strength. We've held off on them (or other direct hard stat stronghold HP boosters) due to the state of the raid meta, but would consider bringing them back in B5.


While we're on that topic I wanted to ask, can we go the opposite way with a upgrade that attacks whoever strikes the ward?
It could make sense for all factions but I imagined it as a transcended upgrade that places turrets on your base.
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Kandarin
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is important enough and enough of an ongoing issue that I'm stickying it.
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Fellis
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kandarin wrote:
This is important enough and enough of an ongoing issue that I'm stickying it.


Have you read my suggestion thread here?: https://www.nexusclash.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=9720

I feel like adding more things to buy and possibly a tech tree for the faction upgrades is kinda just kicking the can down the road. Even with a major reset of faction upgrades and renown stores in B5, the most raidy and active factions will quickly buy the best stuff and be sitting on piles of renown, or at least will be far ahead of factions with not as much activity. Not an awful thing! But could drive more people towards the biggest factions and stifle the membership of medium/small facs.

I understand that depending on the framework and changes to faction war already slated to go in B5, trying to attempt a course change like this would be longer delays. That's no good, and I'm fine with another breath of the current system, but I really think that some of the base mechanics of the game need to be rethought and refined for this game to really evolve further. See also morality systems, but unlike renown, i haven't thought of (what I think would be) a better system. yet
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