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Nexus Clash :: View topic - Add some low-tier Neutral Mobs to Laurentia
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Add some low-tier Neutral Mobs to Laurentia
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rockettk
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:18 am    Post subject: Add some low-tier Neutral Mobs to Laurentia Reply with quote

This would give newer players an entity to target reliably and would offer an easy to identify alternative grind for the new player that isn’t just camping a library and reading. You probably wouldn’t want them to spawn as much as they do in the planes, but just having an occasional npc, both good and bad, would help the area feel more alive and populated.
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Lychwood
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been in favor of this whenever it comes up. In the past, people have countered that it might be discouraging to new players, to land in the game and then get eaten by a wandering monster right off the bat. I feel like the new player experience has a bit of the opposite problem--people get here, ready to be a part of a war and looking for something to fight, and don't find anything. With mobs in Laurentia, they might actually get a chance to jump into some action a bit sooner.

Most of us vets realize that it's more efficient to grind through mortal and not stop until you've got some combat skills, so it's easy for us to look at rogue mobs as simply a deterrent from that task, and therefore a negative thing. But new players generally aren't thinking on that level yet and just want some excitement. Yeah, a mob might wander up while they're looking through their inventory and gank them. But as it stands, they're already in constant danger of a hunter doing that anyway. At least a wandering mob is a fairer matchup.

In the meantime, we at least have the sect of Maeval. We could always just get a dedicated group of people to create and proliferate zombies using the guild's ability. Idea
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haliphax
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 to both (more morally-ambiguous wandering mobs in Laurentia and a Sect of Maeval-oriented guild that exists to create zeds, even/especially through the sacrifice of its own members' flesh)
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Fellis
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lychwood wrote:
I've been in favor of this whenever it comes up. In the past, people have countered that it might be discouraging to new players, to land in the game and then get eaten by a wandering monster right off the bat. I feel like the new player experience has a bit of the opposite problem--people get here, ready to be a part of a war and looking for something to fight, and don't find anything. With mobs in Laurentia, they might actually get a chance to jump into some action a bit sooner.

Most of us vets realize that it's more efficient to grind through mortal and not stop until you've got some combat skills, so it's easy for us to look at rogue mobs as simply a deterrent from that task, and therefore a negative thing. But new players generally aren't thinking on that level yet and just want some excitement. Yeah, a mob might wander up while they're looking through their inventory and gank them. But as it stands, they're already in constant danger of a hunter doing that anyway. At least a wandering mob is a fairer matchup.

In the meantime, we at least have the sect of Maeval. We could always just get a dedicated group of people to create and proliferate zombies using the guild's ability. Idea


Don't Maeval zombies already ignore level 1-4 characters? I think that, and if wandering monsters don't wander inside (which I think only wraiths do atm) that would be more than enough safety for new players

Fully in support of this, I think it would be a great way to have some combat exp available to people without having to bend over backwards to make new features

Also put a kraken in the ocean with wandering tentacles in the sea that drag you towards the kraken
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Alyss
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://youtu.be/k4pbfT5pupc

Especially in the sewers. Sewer rats, mutant hiveworms (Noey made me type specifically hiveworms, but true) and most-of-all a wandering alligator boss is/was LITERALLY a no-brainer. I'm here all day boi!

But yeah, wandering monsters on the streets and more in the sewers (with maybe a few tiles added to the sewers - like making power stations etc have an indoor/shelter location to provide a reprieve from them overnight, sadly the dessicated sewers would need that I think or you'd just get clapped when you settled down to rest). Or maybe most of the wandering monsters could lack Enhanced Senses, perhaps? Could be a little opaque.

Either way, there seriously needs to be more PvE content for all levels and it needs to be more immediately-apparent to people joining the game. To my knowledge, simple monsters are SUPER easy to make, so I think it's overdue especially with how the game is nowadays. It isn't remotely, but it looks empty at first glance, especially if you wander off. Plus PvE in Clash is actually fun.


Noey (Gurandra): It'd take time, but you could actually make subsets of the sewers (perhaps using areas of the old sewers) to make 'levelled areas' of the sewer subsystem as well, including having the first one being like a tutorial area. Most new players tend towards rushing combat and then get left out in the cold, this'd give them a smoother and more interesting levelling experience early-on, and once they get stronger they can move to more threatening parts of the sewers.[/url]
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Dissident
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please keep in mind when designing these mobs that a wandering t3 hungry for stats will mow these down. Make them not count towards damage dealt, Pet Kills, and only give XP to low levels.

They can go hunt inside SH and outer planes if they want.
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Alyss
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...Who gives a crap if max-levels decide to kill them as well?

It wouldn't even be a good way to grind stats! Even if that would be some apocalyptic problem, which it isn't. Go hit wards. Go hit Stygia hellhounds. And EXP in particular literally does nothing after max. If you want the highest EXP count, go main Redeemed.
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Dissident
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because if a single t3 wipes them out in a single cycle then the main point of the op is kinda useless yeah?

It's like having a 7 deathfarmers so that you can give XP to those who needs it but only some maxxed out dude kills half of them. But I guess only those who actually have deathfarmers understand how that isn't working.

Quote:
Go HIT HELLHOUNDS

Which is encouraged when these mobs won't provide pet kill count and doesn't contradict your point. How many SH are in Laurentia? How many t3s are inside? How many SH are in Stygia? How many AP to go to stygia from Laurentia? I dont know...if you think about it more you'd get the point. Unless you can't then I cant help you.
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Alyss
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a fascinating feature in this game called respawning, which I think could also be applied to wandering monsters! Not sure though, it might be simply too complex to code, or require too much of an in-depth explanation on the Wiki for newer players to successfully parse it.

Just do as people have justifiably done and make your (BIG EXP GAINS Level 2) deathfarmer(s) +40 MO if a certain max-level keeps killing them. Well, I guess then angels would have a tougher time killing them in general, dang, funny how that works-out, huh? It's almost as if angels are actually the ones who have difficulty dealing eye-for-an-eye with people who can change their MO quickly and easily, rather than it being the other way around.

Edit responding to Dissident's edit (the last bit): Star_Sapphire actually did the rest of her 1000 summons killed (~300 or so) grind off feral hellhounds so as not to offend summonganging summoners after she got leaned-on in the past. It's a doable grind to do that way, and if you're a class who can't tank, it might well be your only (current) way to grind it except for direct-killing a few scraps from the summoner on a raid here and there. Galaxy brain, but you don't always have to go back to your SH every single day when you're grinding something out, a remote but good location can be preferable to a weaker more convenient one.
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Gurandra
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, this game is in desperate need of content. Content for new-players and low-level characters, but also content across the board.
I see no benefit in putting a lock on content for higher level characters. That's an additional annoyance factor in a game with already bad UX. Fortunately, Hali is working on it slowly, but the same remains; this game needs something for you to do!
An "easy grind" for max Levels is kinda farcical to use as an argument against content. Even assuming a Level 30 uses their entire 71 AP cycle. Assuming that all wandering monsters don't evade a hit and die to 1 attack. Assuming there are 71 of these pets on their tile. And assuming the Level 30 doesn't die and needs to respawn. It would take nearly 14 days to accomplish. That isn't "easy" by any stretch, but also is very unrealistic. Even taking best cases possible, it would take over 1 month to complete 1000 pet kills. I just don't see the point in gatekeeping content.
It's why it would be a good idea to include "Leveled" areas in the sewers to match a bracket of character levels, and obviously have wandering monsters respawn. That's a mechanic known to exist in Stygia and Elysium, so I see no reason why they couldn't over here? You can even give these pets an enhanced respawn rate as so to not have to worry about a level 30 character clearing them all out in a subsystem.
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Dissident
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did I just fail my perception check and read that the OP wants LOW TIER MOBS for NEW Players and THIS thread was actually a suggestion for an End Game Content?

Oh Fuck, Sorry! I guess Ill go just rest for today.
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Kandarin
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An observation that may prove helpful: since last night we've (effectively) had neutral wandering mobs running around in Laurentia as proposed by the OP, and dozens of player characters have attacked them. My means of seeing who fought the wandering mobs is a bit clunky, but I was able to tell who was out there fighting them.

Out of the over 70 characters who have attacked the wandering neutral pets roaming around, only one single character was a Mortal. Perhaps ten of the rest were T2s. The overwhelming majority were T3 or maxed.
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GreatCatatonic
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, but these mobs give bonus content not otherwise accessible to T3s. I killed some with two maxed characters but would have absolutely passed them by if they were just low-level mobs.

Edit: Plus, at least one of them gave my HC some trouble and would probably have shredded a mortal.

--Great
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Trialist
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could see some creatures like "a wandering crocodile" or "a savage vulture" appearing in Laurentia, perhaps with the crocodiles spawning around sewers (or in sewers and leaving) and the vultures near the mountains. My biggest concern, perhaps, is not wanting developers to put too much focus on making new wandering pets if we're going to be moving out of the breath soon-ish. As such, just having some masterless zombies (outside) and tentacles (inside) at random locations would probably work better, especially if we are getting close to the "End of the Breath" and things are happening now.

I'm not too keen on the ideas of NPCs, or just roving things which might be mistaken for players. For one, trying to interact with "a rotten cop" and just getting your face punched in will be disappointing enough, without thinking that it was a standard player interaction than with little more than a feral pet. For two, it would be difficult to code anything more than the basics (read: combat) for a NPC, and it's not much of a NPC if all it really does is punch back.

I'll agree that most of these pets would just be eaten by wandering T3s looking for pets killed badges, or easy XP on the way to Lv.30. Given current Laurentia, making them more common in the sewers would make sense - more reason to go down there, less likely for T3s to spend all their AP just running around down there.
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Lagn
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the idea is to give mortals a way to gain XP via combat skills, perhaps there could be other ways to do so than just NPCs- like target ranges or training dummies.
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