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Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:07 am Post subject: Heavy Item retuning
Was playing around with heavy items on my IB. Like many things in this game, there were some issues.
1: Many of the items I picked up disappeared. About half of them did. This seemed more common with large blocks of ice, which might be related to their status as thrown weapons, but I think it happened to some of the melee weapons, too. In any case, this might be more common with the thrown heavy items. That info might help fix that bug.
2: Many of the items were below average item quality, some of them were at destroyed quality. This makes their accuracy quite bad.
Also 2B: The heavy weapon bonuses IBs get don't apply to heavy items. I assume this is true for all the other classes that get bonuses to heavy weapons. This means their accuracy in comparison to let's say chainsaws (which are the best heavy weapons) is quite bad.
3: Heavy items (that don't disappear) are pretty rare. I could spend 2 or 3 AP wandering randomly and not see any heavy items. That means their AP cost to use is quite bad. Perhpas putting a marker on the map, like the marker for pets and characters could work. It think it would make sense that you'd be able to see heavy items from a distance (especially if you can see characters and pets from a distance).
4: Thrown heavy items take 1 AP to pick up after each attack. This makes them bad.
5: Most heavy items are thrown weapons (which combined with number 2, number 3, and number 4) makes heavy items in general not that great. A 50/50 split between melee and thrown would be great and would mean you don't need to take thrown weapons to use heavy items.
A suggestion not related to fixing problems:
6: Hand to hand heavy items! I know badziew has contributed some thought on this before and I think the idea is great. He suggested something like using boulders like boxing gloves. Here's some more suggestions: Grabbing a car and then stepping on someone. Grabbing a fridge and then tackling someone. Grabbing a heavy item and then doing an elbow slam (called "The People's Elbow" in professional wrestling, which is totally real). Picture included below. I think those things make sense as "Hand to hand" attacks one could use with heavy items.
Picture: An elbow slam attack called "The People's Elbow". Imagine performing this while carrying a heavy item.
6B: Some thoughts on this suggestion and why it's difficult to come up with ideas. Hand to hand attacks don't use weapons. That's what unarmed fighting is; fighting without weapons. It's hard to up with hand to hand attacks which use items, because an object used to attack is a weapon. The brass knuckles item is a good example of an item used in a hand to hand attack which still makes sense to fall under hand to hand combat, rather than melee combat. So some creativity might be needed to come up with hand to hand heavy items.
7: One shotting imps with heavy items is quite a lot of fun. I highly recommend it.
8: Whatever change made it possible to drag heavy items through portals and into houses is great.
Last edited by Saxony on Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
+1 +1 +1. I'm glad heavy items can be brought into buildings now, but a lot of work seems to be done. I know it's somewhat controversial because IB's undertuned numbers seem partially-balanced around the existence of heavy items, except as pointed out, the downsides and bugginess make them bad regardless in real terms.
So sometimes the thinking seems to be that they should be discarded as a semi-serious mechanic in order to properly buff and/or part-rework IB with absolutely no fear of the combination getting out of hand when it's not impeded by heavy items' usual RNG and accuracy BS.
I'm in favour of heavy items myself, especially if hand-to-hand ones were to be made. This would be hilarious on Earth Holy Champion, already technically a class which can deliver some of the highest one-punches going (yeah, not eFfiCienTly, but it's fun).
Edit: There have also been a lot of suggestions I've seen to expand interaction with heavy items beyond the very few classes that can at the moment, and make them more generic (but also useful). For example, being able to cast spells on heavy items to turn them into mimics, or provide information like a spying statue. Or just being able to hide in a fridge, and if someone chucks it with you in the mix, your dumbarse takes a heap of damage. With things like the telephone poles, they could be climbed to put you out of reach. There's a lot of zany things that've been brought-up, really. But I do genuinely think it's the way to go for Breath 5 to have everyone be able to mess with them to some degree.
Or just being able to hide in a fridge, and if someone chucks it with you in the mix, your dumbarse takes a heap of damage.
Haha, that sounds great. The ole Indiana Jones maneuver.
Caption: Indiana Jones hides in a fridge.
Regarding the rest of your post, I agree. I think there's a lot of possibilities for heavy items. I think most people are happy with them right now (I definitely enjoy using them on my IB), there's just a few bugs and the system is a bit spartan (find item, pick it up, attack with it, drop item).
Adding more skills in more classes that can do different things with heavy items would be great. Expanding the system right now might seem like an inefficient use of time since so few classes can interact with them, so those ideas you mentioned about spellcasters interacting with them in some way would be great.
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