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Admin Game Playing Rules
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Should Admins be allowed to play as we do?
Yes, completely.
55%
 55%  [ 26 ]
No, not in factions.
25%
 25%  [ 12 ]
Yes in factions, but limited factions.
6%
 6%  [ 3 ]
Admins shouldn't play at all.
6%
 6%  [ 3 ]
Other. Explain in comments.
6%
 6%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 47

Author Message
pancakes
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Joined: Jan 20, 2012
Posts: 407

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:09 am    Post subject: Admin Game Playing Rules Reply with quote

Admins are people too right. People who loved this game. Should they be allowed to play on the same level as the rest of us, or should they exclude themselves, at least from some aspects of it because of the powers they hold?

Should they be allowed to play part in factions?
Should they exclude themselves from the faction game so it isn't viewed as favoritism, and so frivolous accusations of "admin abuse" are completely avoided?
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Sihoiba
Architect of Anguish


Joined: Jan 20, 2010
Posts: 2080

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to clarify the current game admins are:
Bobgeneric
Liche as Bob's right hand man
Shadok as event coordinator
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saulres
So Very Sorry
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Joined: Jan 19, 2010
Posts: 3720

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before I vote, could someone please clarify what abilities they have that aren't available to regular players?

I know they can grant items, teleport people, and smite. What else?
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pancakes
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Joined: Jan 20, 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All that I know of, Grant AP HP CP, MP. Change tiles, have any skills they please, make a variety of unique weapons/items.
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Sihoiba
Architect of Anguish


Joined: Jan 20, 2010
Posts: 2080

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admins can:
View active users.
Create new items of any type, though weapons that require ammo don't work as weapon loading is custom coded for the weapon.
Create new tiles types, though special features like the poisoned sea poisoning are custom coded by Bob.
Edit existing tile types by altering their search odds, hide odds, adding items to find tables, text, and passability
Alter the map by changing tile description text, neighbourhood, infusion flipping change and the infusion amount tiles flip, and create new portal.
Make game wide announcements.
Smite characters.
View any currently applicable status effects on a character and a characters message log.
Grant a character any item (generated as they are found though so weapons and armour have random quality and ammo amounts), including innate weapons and armour and special attacks (e.g. dark heart)
Alter character: Name, description, level (doesn't trigger level up events if changed), tier 2 class, tier 3 class (having a class allows those class skills to be bought and work, e.g making a Seraph IB, by choosing Seraph as the tier 2 class, and IB as tier 3 class), CP, XP (doesn't change level if changed), HP, MP, AP, location coordinates, plane, inside/outside status and faction rank.
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Repth
Lore Developer
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Joined: Jan 31, 2012
Posts: 1037

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Other

I think I would find it interesting if the admins played demigod type characters aligned to an elder power. The roleplay would be great. Yes, they would have special abilities but also special roleplay restrictions. They can join factions and such, but have high standards partial to their elder power and leave factions that don't do things their way. Also always rank 1 in said elder powers guild.

These demigods could be hunted for higher xp and orthodoxy values.
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etherealsol
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Joined: Jun 16, 2010
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No objection to admins playing normally. Would like to know that anything odd would be investigated, though.
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saulres
So Very Sorry
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Joined: Jan 19, 2010
Posts: 3720

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Shadok.

Okay, so I don't see how restricting admins from playing in a faction would in any way prevent them from helping their favorite factions.

An unscrupulous admin would say, "Okay, I'm an admin so by player decree I can't be in My Favorite Faction. But I still want them to win, and I do hate My Hated Faction, so I'll have someone in My Favorite Faction ping me when they're being raided and provide them with solid countermeasures."

What exactly is the concern here? What are admins doing that caused you to post this thread? Or is this getting back to the drama with Tek last breath?
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EstimatedProphet
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Joined: Apr 25, 2011
Posts: 163

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see why they shouldn't play the same as the rest of us, as long as they observe separation between their role as a character in the game, and their role as an admin for the game.

The whole player community is obliged to observe character separation, and navigate the ethical problem all the time when they have characters in multiple factions that sometimes raid one another. The only added caveat for admins is that they must oblige themselves not to use their admin powers to benefit their own normal characters or their factions, and reserve their use for administrative purposes (events, testing, etc.).

People will make a fuss if they think they see bias, and it'll be addressed.
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CarelessWill
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Joined: Jun 18, 2012
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EstimatedProphet wrote:
I don't see why they shouldn't play the same as the rest of us, as long as they observe separation between their role as a character in the game, and their role as an admin for the game.

The whole player community is obliged to observe character separation, and navigate the ethical problem all the time when they have characters in multiple factions that sometimes raid one another. The only added caveat for admins is that they must oblige themselves not to use their admin powers to benefit their own normal characters or their factions, and reserve their use for administrative purposes (events, testing, etc.).

People will make a fuss if they think they see bias, and it'll be addressed.
This.

I fully support a Haunted Toaster running around causing shenanigans, but busting into an SH only to find that we have to clear out the Collector of Chaos would be well over.
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Mallich
Nexus Clash Veteran
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Joined: Jun 26, 2010
Posts: 1807

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EstimatedProphet wrote:
I don't see why they shouldn't play the same as the rest of us, as long as they observe separation between their role as a character in the game, and their role as an admin for the game.
Like CarelessWill, this.
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SkullFace
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Joined: Jan 19, 2010
Posts: 2392
Location: Mars

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This probably arises from the fact that in a previous Breath an admin handed out bans to players whilst himself using his admin abilities to grant himself AP/MP at will, hunt down players he had a beef with and benefit his faction in interfaction conflict (quickly resetting SH with admin-granted abilities, smiting for spurious reasons during raids, enforcing behaviour on players that was not enforced upon faction mates, checking enemy players online). In other words, cheating and rank hypocrisy on a grand scale.

The reason for compartmentalising admins and players was cited as the inability to functionally separate player login in to their account to play from the admin controls given to the player i.e. the admin interface was not separate from the player interface.

(And yes, it was pointed out that admins should be using a totally separate account from their player account.)

If the admin interface has been separated from the player interface then visibility is the surest way to police possible admin misbehaviour in-game:

  • Force admins to login and logout of the admin interface separately from their player interface.
  • Autopublish a weekly log of all admin panel login/logout times and all admin actions to an online text file that the community can scrutinize at will.
  • Publish all admin character IDs.


If admin actions are made public for all to see you will have a self-policing game. Suspicion and mistrust will disappear completely and players will be able to see what the admins are putting into the game.

Admins should be there to run the game rather than to game the game and lord it over other players. Until the separation of accounts/functionality and transparency of admin actions is assured, admins have no business being involved in factional play.
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saulres
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I think that just publishing a log of all admin actions regularly would solve all the issues, wouldn't it? Without them needing a separate login?

Could even be real-time, at a set URL.

Potential issue: Maybe map changes aren't things which should be published. There may be other (like in Shadok's events).
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Repth
Lore Developer
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Joined: Jan 31, 2012
Posts: 1037

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still want Demigods. Very Happy
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pancakes
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

saulres wrote:

What exactly is the concern here? What are admins doing that caused you to post this thread? Or is this getting back to the drama with Tek last breath?


Exactly is an admin raided my faction with another faction and I asked him about it. My concern was that he did it as an unfactioned character and it would raise questions among my members which I would have to answer, so I stated to him that I prefer if he did it factioned because it would make fewer problems for me personally.

I wasn't around last breath and everything I know about "Tek Drama" is hearsay and I don't consider it. Tek is an old friend of mine.

I made this thread because I was asked to. I hope I am misreading a suggestion by you that I am stirring up some drama or something.
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