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Breath 4 Leaks: Alchemy

 
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EagleWiz
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:31 pm    Post subject: Breath 4 Leaks: Alchemy Reply with quote

Note: Alchemy system may be subject to change.

Alchemy in breath 4 will still require components, as well as 5 AP and 20 MP and formula research which will cost 3 AP and 15 MP, similar to how it currently works. The components in breath 4 will be divided into 5 main categories - Industry , Flora, Fauna, Stygian and Elysian.

Components

Industry
Common: Chunk of Brass, Copper Wire, Chunk of Steel,
Uncommon: Vial of Quicksilver (Elysium exclusive) , Vial of Sulfur (Stygia exclusive) , Refined Salt
Rare: Chunk of Stygian Iron (Not in Elysium) , Gold Ingot (Not in Stygia) , Vial of Aqua Regia

Flora
Common: Piece of Wood, Patch of Moss, Healing Herb (Elysium exclusive)
Uncommon: Mushrooms, Bunch of Daisies (Not in Stygia) , Sprig of Nightshade (Not in Elysium)
Rare: Bunch of Paradise Lilies (Elysium exclusive), Rose (Not in Stygia), Mandrake Root

Fauna
Common: Stygian Bone Leech (Stygia exclusive), Batch of Leather, Skull
Uncommon: Chunk of Ivory (Not in Stygia), Imp Tail (Not in Elysium), Large Fang
Rare: Sinew , Chunk of Onyx (Not in Elysium), Piece of Dragonhide (Stygia Exclusive)

Stygian
Common: Stygian Bone Leech (Stygia exclusive), Piece of Stygian Coal(Stygia exclusive), Vial of Blood
Uncommon: Vial of Sulfur (Stygia exclusive), Imp Tail, Sprig of Nightshade
Rare: Chunk of Stygian Iron, Chunk of Onyx, Piece of Dragonhide (Stygia exclusive)

Elysian
Common: Healing Herb(Elysium exclusive) , Bottle of Paradise Water (Elysium exclusive),Holy Water
Uncommon: Chunk of Ivory, Vial of Quicksilver (Elysium exclusive), Bunch of Daisies
Rare: Bunch of Paradise Lilies (Elysium exclusive), Rose, Gold Ingot

There are also Mystical components, which are not usually used in potion recipes.

Mystical
Common: Soul Ice , Energy Stone , Prayer Beads
Uncommon: Handful of grave dirt
Rare: Void Crystal


Stygian and Elysian are all the previously red/blue items with the inclusion of two new common items.

Brewing System

Potion recipes will be procedurally generated. Each potion requires one fixed component, and 4 other components. The non-fixed components are assigned by rarity and category - for example, a potion of regeneration will always require the fixed component, 1 rare component, 2 uncommon components, and 1 common component. Which rare, uncommon and common components exactly are needed will vary from alchemist to alchemist, but 2 of them will be flora, 1 will be fauna, and 1 will be industry. Additionally a potion will never require two of the same component.

To be more specific, first rarities will be assigned to categories (in the example of the regeneration recipe either flora1, flora2, fauna, or industry will be randomly assigned to be rare, then two of the remaining categories will be assigned to uncommon, then the last one will be assigned to common). Once this is done a component that has not yet been used will be randomly selected from the component list (for example, if the recipe assigned fauna to rare, a flora and industry to uncommon and a fauna to common, it would randomly pick one rare fauna, one uncommon flora, one uncommon industry and one common fauna)


Impurity System
The number and strength of the potions gained depends on the Impurity score. Potions start with a base impurity of 35 and this can be modified by a number of factors -

* Experience - Every other level gained reduces impurity by 1 (base impurity is 30 at level 10, 25 at level 20 and 20 at level 30)
* Skills - One of the alchemy child skills reduces impurity by 10
* Location - Locations may increase or decrease impurity. For example, a Pharmacy increases impurity by 5, but an Ivory/Ebony tower decreases it by 5
* Substitution - When brewing a potion you can substitute components in the same category (stygian/industry/flora/fauna/elysian), but this will increase impurity as follows. You may also substitute Mystical components for any category -

If the component required is RARE and you substitute it with a RARE component: +5 IMPURITY
If the component required is RARE and you substitute it with an UNCOMMON component: +7 IMPURITY
If the component required is RARE and you substitute it with a COMMON component: +9 IMPURITY
If the component required is UNCOMMON and you substitute it with a RARE component: +3 IMPURITY
If the component required is UNCOMMON and you substitute it with an UNCOMMON component: +5 IMPURITY
If the component required is UNCOMMON and you substitute it with a COMMON component: +7 IMPURITY
If the component required is COMMON and you substitute it with a RARE component: +1 IMPURITY
If the component required is COMMON and you substitute it with an UNCOMMON component: +3 IMPURITY
If the component required is COMMON and you substitute it with a COMMON component: +5 IMPURITY

In addition to the above:

If FIXED component (Occasionally refereed to as the alchemical focus) in your alchemy recipe is substituted: +15 impurity
If you use a MYSTICAL COMMON component as a substitution: +5 impurity
If you use a MYSTICAL RARE component as a substitution: -5 impurity.

Impurity results
Potions are either Greater, Normal or Lesser. The number and kind depends on the impurity as follows (rounded up)

0- Perfect - 6 Greater, possibly some other benefit
2- - 5 Greater,1 Normal
5 - Grandmaster 4 Greater, 2 Normal
7 - 4 Greater, 1 Normal, 1 Lesser
10 - Mastery 3 Greater 3 Normal
12 - 2 Greater 4 Normal
15 - Great 2 Greater 3 Normal 1 Lesser
17 - 1 Greater 4 Normal 1 Lesser
20 - Good 1 Greater 3 Normal 2 Lesser
22 - 4 Normal 2 Lesser
25 - Average 3 Normal 3 Lesser
27 - 2 Normal 4 Lesser
30 - Acceptable 1 Normal 5 Lesser
32 - 6 Lesser
35 - Subpar 5 Lesser 1 Poison
40 - 4 Lesser 2 Poison
45 - Bad 3 Lesser 2 Poison
50 - 2 Lesser 2 Poison
55 - Abysmal -1 Lesser 2 Poison
60+ - Utter Failure - No potions, Suffer Injury

Potion Refining

Standard and Weak Potions can be refined by combining them at an alchemical workbench with a MYSTICAL component. The mystical component is always consumed.

Common Mystical components have a 30% chance of turning the potion to poison, a 50% chance of successfully improving the quality of a potion, and a 20% chance of doing nothing.

Uncommon Mystical Components have a 10% chance of turning the potion into poison, a 75% chance of successfully improving the quality of the potion, and a 15% chance of doing nothing to the potion, but instead giving you the appropriate common mystical component.

Rare Mystical Components have a 100% chance of improving the quality of the potion.

Potions and Their Effects

Note: (x/y/z) refers to the effects of Lesser/Normal/Greater potions

Potion of Fire Affinity - (+1/+2/+2) to all fire damage and (+15/25/35) fire resistance for (20 ticks/25 ticks/35 ticks)

Potion of Cold Affinity – See Fire Affinity, except damage bonus and resistance are to cold

Potion of Lightning Affinity– As above

Potion of Acid Affinity – As above

Potion of Death Affinity – As above

Potion of Radiant Affinity – As above

Potion of Arcane Affinity – As above

Potion of Unholy Affinity – As above

Potion of Holy Affinity – As above

Potion of Combat Clarity - +(10%/15%/15%) to hit for (20 ticks/25 ticks/40 ticks)

Potion of Flying – Flying for (25 ticks/15 minutes/2 hours)

Potion of Invulnerability – (+1/2/2 to all soaks for 20/25/35 ticks)

Potion of Healing – Heal (15/25/35) damage and cure
(no/normal/all poisons)

Potion of Invisibility – (50/60/75)% invisibility for (15 minutes/2 hours/4 hours) This means that there is a (50/60/75)% chance that you will not be noticed when someone enters a building, and that any search attempts to find you have that chance of failure

Potion of Magic Recovery – Gain (5/10/15) MP or (15/30/45) MP if you have spellcraft

Potion of Night Vision – Reduce night search penalty by (half/full/full) for (30 ticks/5 minutes/2 hours). If your class does not have a night search penalty, this does not provide a bonus.

Potion of Planar Protection - Reduce planar damage to (1 point/0/0) for (25 ticks/15 minutes/2 hours)

Potion of Regeneration - Gain (2/3/3) HP per tick for (15/15/20) ticks

Potion of Water-Breathing – Moving in water costs (1/1/.5) AP and you can't drown for (15 minutes/2 hours/4 hours)

Potion of Enhanced Senses - Gain Enhanced Senses for (25 ticks/15 minutes/2 hours). If you already have enhanced senses you gain see invisible

Potion of Poison – Can be created by accident. Lose (1/2/3) HP per tick for 15 ticks.
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GreatCatatonic
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neat!

I like how alchemy will require greater focus.
I like how you can sacrifice some quality to get a potion done (does the substitution system mean Alchemical Transmutation is going away?).
I like how the number of components required has gone down.
I really like how one alchemist can be better than another.

The only thing I balked at was the chance of nothing happening when trying to improve a recipe. Personally, I'd like to see the chance windows expanded so that something happens every time; I'd rather have something bad happen more often than see nothing happen. It's just frustrating, especially with something so detail-oriented.

--Great
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Dissident
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Potion Refining needs work. With that system you'd rather have a class that can generate the best results and have that person grind up the best possible recipe. So that's kinda like the present breath where Conduits are the best Alchemist just because they have that chance of not consuming the ingredients resulting in more Potions for the faction. (And I didn't really like that.)

More about the Potion Refining. During the 'End Game' the only reason to refine potions would be to clean out the trash potions you brew when you're still not great with making them. Later on in the breath, it will always be better to brew another batch with your Rare Mystical than use it to upgrade.

According to the Impurity system, a dedicated Level 30 alchemist can easily hit Impurity level of 10 and 5 if they are situated in the right place. Resulting in the following:
Quote:

10 Impurity : 3 Greater, 3 Normal
05 Impurity : 4 Greater, 2 Normal

Or Using a Mystical Rare:

00 Impurity : 6 Greater and other benefits.

Compared to Using your Mystical Rare to Refine a potion (Am I getting it right that this is just for ONE potion?)
Quote:

Common Mystical : 50% chance that you wasted AP and your Mystical Component. 30% Chance that you also wasted your potion.

Uncommon Mystical : 25% Chance of wasted AP and Mystical Component.

Rare Mystical : Upgrade a potion vs. (00 Impurity : 6 Greater and other benefits.)


25% percent is big enough that one would always feel it happens every time.

Potion Refining looks really useful in the early game and useless in the end game if I'm understanding everything correctly which I probably don't Razz


On the positive part, this would open up a lot of things like importance of certain resource buildings. There's also the option of giving advocates a passive skill that brewing produces more potions, DO creates powerful ones; that is if the Conduits retain their ingredient recycling skill.

Overall, this looks really interesting. Map designing would be hellavafun haha Good Luck! Great Job devs!
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Thatoneguy
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This seems like an improvement over the current system to me, because there are a lot more options and a lot more things can happen. But one thing I don't get is how an ancient ruin like the ivory/ebony tower is more sterile than a pharmacy?
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Kharn
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it's more like

~~~~magically~~~~ sterile

if you know what I mean
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Dissident
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get how Ivory tower and angels are sterile...but Ebony?
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tremor3258
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, this looks neat from the first base - it seems to offer a little more variety and I think I like how 'off' ingredients work.
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MerlintheTuna
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dissident wrote:
With that system you'd rather have a class that can generate the best results and have that person grind up the best possible recipe.
I don't disagree with anything you've written here, but I would also point out that the difference between normal and greater potions is, in most cases, negligible. For the vast majority of those effects, 25 ticks is going to be plenty. And for stuff like Night Vision or Enhanced Senses that work based on actual time, well, it only takes a few minutes to burn through your daily AP outside of a raid scenario, right? So while you're right that there's room to become the best of the best, non-specialists aren't really getting left in the dust.

Weirdly, that makes 12 impurity (6 acceptable potions) arguably superior to 7 (5 acceptable potions, 1 junk) in all cases but Healing, MR, and Invisibility. Although if those resistances represent % values rather than soak values, that doesn't necessarily hold.

My only real quibble here is that variety of potions could make for spellgem-esque safe spam. 21 types of potions x 3 quality levels = potentially 63 entries in the safe just for pots. Lessers, water breathing, and poison will mostly just make for target practice, but that's still 38 entries.

Smaller observation: No more LI and GIs, huh? Can't say I'm sad to see those go.
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MerlintheTuna
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More relevant question: is (re-)learning recipes still going to result in contracting Defiler Poison a thousand goddanged times? Razz
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Dissident
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MerlintheTuna wrote:
but I would also point out that the difference between normal and greater potions is, in most cases, negligible.
You're right but that doesn't really help in Potion Refinery and adds to the reason not to do it.

MerlintheTuna wrote:

So while you're right that there's room to become the best of the best, non-specialists aren't really getting left in the dust.
I noticed that but didn't comment much because I don't know what the plans are for the 3 T3 support.

MerlintheTuna wrote:

My only real quibble here is that variety of potions could make for spellgem-esque safe spam.
I heard that there were plans of separation of inventory if we could access all potions in one part and have a SORTING mechanism, it should make inventory maintenance less of a hell.

There's a lot of improvements that needs to be done to inventories and faction safe but that's a subject for a different time.



Question:

Will there be other uses for poisons apart from killing yourself. Can we kill out factionmates with it? Very Happy

Why not the effect of Extended Invis for the Greater Invis potion effect? We don't like Extended Invis?

Healing Potion: What's normal poisons and all the other kind of poisons?
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Buttercup
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
21 types of potions x 3 quality levels = potentially 63 entries in the safe just for pots.

Maybe have a collapsible sub-heading for potions/etc. if a particular category has an unwieldy number of items? Example:

* Potions (38 items / 64 weight total)
[+] (click to expand list)

(expanded:)

* Potions (38 items / 64 weight total)
[-] (click to hide list)
junk of the living wake (7)
bald eagle bellier (1)
monkey power (excellent) (1)
monkey power (good) (15)
monkey power (poor) (3)
ddosferatu (good) (9)
turnkey turkey drink (excellent) (2)

Quote:
Will there be other uses for poisons apart from killing yourself. Can we kill out factionmates with it? Very Happy

Ooh, I know, just like pets have stances, you can have stances on who's potions you're willing to drink: Everything, no matter what; Everything, except from someone who recently poisoned you; Everything from factionmates; Everything from enemies (but not friends!); uh... you get the gist.
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Teksura
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dissident wrote:
I get how Ivory tower and angels are sterile...but Ebony?


It's Alchemy, not chemistry. Powerful magic is contained within these towers.
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Saint_Jimmy
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Great Catatonic - Alchemical Transmutation will allow you to transmute components *down* a rarity level in the same category. So a rare Fauna component could be converted into an uncommon or common Fauna component. It certainly won't be as essential as it is currently, and will be more of an option for an alchemist to take a bit more time brewing to avoid the impurity increase that substituting components would bring.

@MerlintheTuna - yeah, affinity potions are % resistances rather than flat soak or straight up immunity. As for some potions not really needing seeing much of a practical benefit in the jump between normal and greater potions - yeah, I'll admit there's plenty of potions where I'd go "ehhh, good enough" when brewing, which personally I see as a kind of benefit - some potions you don't need to have brewed so well. As for inventory spam - that could definitely be an issue, we'll have to be careful with how we do the interface for the inventory/safe there. And yes, I assume alchemy will be incredibly painful to research at times Razz

@Dissident - Yeah, we didn't really like how long the duration of XIs was. Normal poison is just minor poison, "other kinds" of potions would be defiler poison or maybe some DO super defiler poison if we give them that.

@Buttercup - Yeah, potions would have their own collapsible section in your inventory, although of course that still gives the problem of having a bunch of different almost identical potions cluttering up your inventory.


Re: Supports being better at alchemy - good chance they'll receive skills they can get to boost their alchemy somehow, but nothing really decided. Personally I want DOs to be able to relabel poison potions to be non-poison, but that might just be me Very Happy

Re: Mystical Rares and 00 impurity - you'd need at least 3 to hit 0 Impurity, the -5 is *in addition to* the normal substitution penalty. That said, we might end up changing the numbers (same with the chances for refining potions).

Re: Ivory/Ebony towers being better than pharmacies. Well have you ever tried doing alchemy in a pharmacy? Razz Something something magic, something something encourage people to piss off to the outer planes.
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Cuddlebeam
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fear that there will be eugenics when it comes to getting a good alchemist because of how variably useful/profitable potions are, how locations are positioned and good stronghold spots.

You're either born an alchemist with the good alchemy "genes" to only need the best spots for your alchemy or you're not.

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