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Nexus Clash :: View topic - [Skill] Increase Way of Earth's mundane soaks
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[Skill] Increase Way of Earth's mundane soaks

 
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MerlintheTuna
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:51 am    Post subject: [Skill] Increase Way of Earth's mundane soaks Reply with quote

Short Version: Currently, Way of Earth provides 5 soak against Impact, Piercing, and Slashing damage. I propose that these three values be upped to 7. All other soaks provided by the armor would remain as current. (For reference: 4 Fire/Cold/Holy/Arcane/Unholy, 3 Electric/Acid/Death)

Rationale:
  • Fairly lengthy discussion of tank classes (link) indicates that ES are notably worse at the role not only compared to their peers (Seraph/IB) but also compared to flex classes (the NC most notably, but HCs and DHs also have some significant advantages.)
  • Way of Earth currently provides fewer points of total soak than all other passive T3 armors. In order: Seraph (78 with all tank skills, 68 just Spring and Stance), IB (72), DH (51), NC (49), ES (44). While this is an imprecise comparison, Way of Earth lags dramatically behind. The described change would move it closer to its intended niche without surpassing Seraph soaks. (Relevant, since soak is the Seraph's core shtick.)
  • The ES has always been positioned as a self-powered, mundane badass. This change further emphasizes that while leaving open their relative vulnerability to exotic damage types. Beyond the thematic value, this means that an ES would become no more difficult for most active T3 classes (and some T2s) to kill, mitigating the extent to which this would induce power creep across the game.
  • Way of Earth does not currently obviate the ES's need for mundane armor, since pristine options can raise soaks to 6 or even 7 in the case of military encounter armor. IE it is not actually doing its job of making the ES a badass against mundane damage. This is doubly relevant since it means the NC has access to the same levels of mundane soak as the ES despite that being their theoretical weakness.

Other considerations:
  • Tek has mentioned an intent to give ES a damage aura skill at some point in the future, which would shore up one of their most significant "tank class" weaknesses. It's worth considering whether that change + this one would make the ES unreasonably strong, though I don't think it would.
  • Primary pet attacks affected by this change: Origami/Bengal Tiger, Skeleton, Zombie/Ghoul, Fossil Monstrosity, Horrid Tentacle (non-G'nak)
  • Secondary pet attacks affected: Judgemaster+Soldiers of Might, Wheel of Righteousness, Hellhound, Horrid Tentacle (with or without G'nak), Wrackwyrm.
  • ES frequently have a ton of carrying capacity thanks to Way of Vim, Strength (often) and Master of Endurance (sometimes). That theoretically gives them room to lug around heavy mundane armors, which would no longer be necessary. Not an issue per se, but it's odd unless we expect them to be carting around a golf bag full of weapons or a ridiculous pile of shotgun shells. Particularly weird for the HtH ES.
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Lagn
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unlike other innate armors, WoE is a 30 CP skill. It wouldn't be fair if ESes could tank as well as the other classes for less CP. Besides, this doesn't address the ES's true weakness, which is a lack of a damage aura.
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MerlintheTuna
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lagn wrote:
Unlike other innate armors, WoE is a 30 CP skill. It wouldn't be fair if ESes could tank as well as the other classes for less CP.
Tattoo of Resistance and Spectral Armor are both 30CP skills that offer better soaks. Way of Earth's +10 HP is nice but I would argue does not effectively close that gap.

Chitinous Armor costs 60 CP but provides dramatically better soak and a bigger bonus to HP. (Hulking Brute also provides another big chunk of HP for 0 CP.)

Spring of the Enhanced Capacitor costs 60CP but provides notably better soaks (granting the edit 40 T2 CP from Divine Armor), equivalent HP, and bonus MP. Even without that, Stance of the Guardian (30 CP) provides basically equivalent soaks to WoE and an active ability to further buff soak.

Basically, I don't think Way of Earth stands up in a vacuum or in concert with classes' other skills.

The lack of a damage aura is indeed a significant strike against the ES. But even if they had one, they'd need to be able to actually tank things for it to matter, and they struggle with that since Way of Earth is only a small step above T2 Divine Armor. I don't think they're comparable tanks to other classes at any value of CP, except maybe if you hit level 20 and only have 30CP to your name. (And even then, it's iffy, especially if WM or LS pets are involved.) Dodge is a nice shtick for them to grow into, just as the IB grows into having more HP and the Seraph grows into even higher soak values, but pushing that any higher risks making them totally unhittable, which I don't think would be a healthy outcome.


Last edited by MerlintheTuna on Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Yukari
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I miss the days of unhittable ESes, to be honest, but that might be bias coming from ES being my first T3 class ever.

Also, Divine Armour costs 40 CP, not 20.

That said, I do agree with these changes for the most part, if only as a stop-gap measure in order to make the class do its job better, but I also see how for 30 CP, 7 soak is a tad excessive.

My suggestion would be then:

Add as a new perk of one of the existing skills, maybe Master of Endurance, a +2 to mundane soaks, +1 to exotic/elemental/aligned soaks. Now, the thing here would be deciding whether this +2 should stack ONLY with WoE, or if it could stack also with mundane armour.

The former means that an ES with WoE and this hypothetical upgraded skill would get:

7 Impact/Piercing/Slashing, 5 Fire/Cold/Holy/Arcane/Unholy, 4 Electric/Acid/Death

Mundane as proposed in the OP, the other two brought up closer to tank standards, while still being somewhat subpar.

The later would mean that, if the ES with the aforementioned skills bothered to keep pristine armour (say, Military Encounter) they would get:

7 Impact, 9 Piercing, 8 Slashing, 5 Fire/Cold/Holy/Arcane/Unholy, 4 Electric/Acid/Death

which is quite impressive in the mundane department, potentially outshining IBs (which, tangentially, also need a bit of a buff).

That would round up the class without making WoE too good for its buck, and while making another not-all-that-popular skill a little bit more attractive.
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