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Poisons [DO skill]

 
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Niphy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Poisons [DO skill] Reply with quote

Why cant we make poisons?

so you can poison your weapons or you poison potions and leave it for someone to pick up

I think demons should have this skill like projection defiler poison onto some potions and leaving them for stupid angels to pick up Smile
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Shadok
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason the game currently doesn't support making potions is simply because we never got around to it. With the plan being that breath 3 (breath 3's rebuild is the biggest rebuild of the classes thus far) is to set up the foundations for which breath 4 is built on, we figured we'd go for it during Breath 4's development. And we have.

There's been plans for breath 4 to allow a demon (most likely the DO) to create "Anti potions" (Or, if you prefer, "Negative positions) which appear to all except the creator as their "Positive" counterpart. To pull an example, the Poison of combat clouding (the names, as usual, are up for debate if anybody has a better one) appears as a potion of combat clarity to anybody except a DO, but LOWERS accuracy by 15% instead of raising it by the same. The ticks won't be as long as their normal counterpart although, since they'd be more likely deployed in a situation where every single tick counts (so more likely to be around 10-15ticks while the positive lasts 25)

Naturally this isn't quite as funny as just pouring poison into an angel's drink, but it's more likely to work in the middle of a fight (after all, a poisoned drink just means angels carry vials of tears/faks on raids. The poison is fixed in 1AP. Easily fixed. A potion which suddenly depletes their damage/accuracy in the middle of a raid for several ticks? Oh crap.)

Now, not all potions have been decided. I'll put up a draft of some "Anti" potions. People can toss in their two cents for what they think should it should be called or the effect of the potion in question. The effects can be nerfed/buffed depending on feedback and I'll edit this post as time goes on. Remember that the more crippling the effect, the faster the ticks burn (so fewer ticks = more powerful effect)

Quote:
Poison of Corrosion (Positive: Acid Affinity): The user's acid soak is dropped to 0. Any existing immunity is negated (including innate ones). Lasts 15 ticks.

Poison of Arcane Wrath (Positive: Arcane affinity): The user takes aligned damage from the use of arcane weapons (enchanted or non), even if they are a transcendant.

Poison of Frostbite (Positive: Cold Affinity): The user's cold soak is dropped to 0. Any existing immunity is negated (including innate ones). Lasts 15 ticks.

Poison of Combat Clouding (Positive: Combat clarity): The user's accuracy is dropped by 15% for 10 ticks.

Potion of Decay (Positive: Death Affinity): The user's death soak is dropped to 0. Any existing immunity is negated (including innate ones). Lasts 15 ticks.

Poison of Conduction (Positive: Electricity Affinity): The user's electric soak is dropped to 0. Any existing immunity is negated (including innate ones). Lasts 15 ticks.

Poison of Materiality (Positive: Extended invisibility): The user immediately loses all instances of "Hide", "Invisible" or "Shadowskulking". The user cannot go invisible, hide or shadowskulk while under the potion's effect (They can attempt it, but it will fail). Furthermore, their defence is lowered by 10%. Lasts 6 hours (360 mins)

Poison of Inferno (Positive: Fire Affinity): The user's fire soak is dropped to 0. Any existing immunity is negated (including innate ones). Lasts 15 ticks.

Poison of Grounding (Positive: Flying): The user is unable to fly, teleport, stone-step, use any sort of travel skill not under these categories (including passive ones) or use portals for the duration of the position. Lasts 30 mins.

Poison of Greater Frailty (Positive: Greater Invulnerability): The user gains -3 soak to all soak values. Stacks with the potion of Frailty and the potion of Lesser Frailty. Lasts 10 ticks.

Poison of Harming (Positive: Healing): The drinker immediately takes 10 points of unsoakable damage. They are then afflicted with sorcerer's might for 5 minutes (stacks with regular SM).

Poison of Holy Wrath (Positive: Holy Affinity): The user takes aligned damage from the use of holy weapons (enchanted or non), even if they are an angel.

Poison of Clumsiness (Positive: Invisibility): The user immediately loses all instances of "Hide", "Invisible" or "Shadowskulking". The user cannot hide or shadowskulk while under the potion's effect (They can attempt it, but it will fail). Lasts 10 minutes.

Poison of Frailty (Positive: Invulnerability): The user gains -2 soak to all soak values. Stacks with the potion of Greater Frailty and the potion of Lesser Frailty. Lasts 10 ticks.

Poison of Silence (Positive: Magic Recovery): The user is unable to use spells or skills. Lasts 10 ticks.

Poison of Planar Disjunction (Positive: Planar Protection): Any planar damage taken is doubled. Additionally, home plane protection is negated. Lasts 30 minutes.

Poison of Rotting (Positive: Regeneration): The user takes 2HP every tick. Lasts 15 ticks.

Poison of Lethargy (Positive: Strength): The user deals -2 damage with hand-to-hand and melee attacks. Lasts 15 ticks.

Poison of Unholy Wrath (Positive: Unholy Affinity): The user takes aligned damage from the use of unholy weapons (enchanted or non), even if they are a demon.

Poison of Toxin (Positive: Water-breathing): The user is afflicted with a unique "Toxin" poison which inflicted 3HP each tick. Lasts 15 ticks. If the poison of Toxin is shot as a target, the shooter is poisoned for 5 ticks.



These are all up for debate if you feel they're too weak/strong. And yes, you DID see an arcane potion up there. It's not certain yet if there'll be an arcane potion in breath 4, but for the sake of completeness I added a poison for one in case it's made.

Also needed is input as to how poisons are made. Should they be made by taking a normal potion and corrupting it into a poison? Or should they be brewed by the DO using alchemy the same way that normal potions are made?


Anyway, I've hijacked this thread enough. Time for the community to talk!
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Last edited by Shadok on Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Pikanchion
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstly: Do these poisons have to be drunk or can they also be applied to attacks?

-The way I see it if they cannot be applied to weapons they will likely not be of much use, it would be quite difficult to trick people into drinking them (who would leave non-poisoned potions on the ground?). However if they can be applied to weapons I fear some of the effects you listed may be too powerful, particularly the soak negation and immunity negation.

Second: How do you cure yourself of these effects/can they be cured?

-Would a real potion negate a poison of the same type? If so, would it be possible to have them cancel in such a way that when drinking a potion to counter a poison, any remaining ticks of the poison are subtracted from the ticks (or minutes) of the potions effect rather than just cancelling both effects fully.
Also would healing be able to cancel the effects of a poison? Perhaps only those with a certain level of the healing skill tree should be able to cure poisons.

Third: Should this really be restricted to a single class/alignment?

-Thematically, sure. Mechanically, I'm not sure that such a potentially high impact feature to the way raids work should only be available to those (factions) of Evil alignment. (Of course this point would be less of an issue should things like total soak negation be scaled down or if the poisons were only self-administered)

Fourth: If these poisons are to be used to trick people into drinking them, would it be possible for the potions and poisons to stack when placed in a safe or personal locker?
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Mallich
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadok wrote:
Quote:
Poison of Harming (Positive: Healing): The drinker immediately takes 10 points of unsoakable damage. They are then afflicted with
... Uh... I'm guessing Sorcerer's Might. Probably.

The name of the anti-flight potion (potion of grounding) sounds as if it's got something to do with electricity. Perhaps "anchor", like the old dimensional anchor potion.

How would this interact with Anoint? If anoint is around in the next breath I can see an awful lot of oddness going on. If angels can anoint people with poisons it would allow the angels to use demonic debuffs.

How would this interact with Way of the Antitoxin?
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saulres
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suggestion:

New child skill of the Alchemy tree: Identify Liquid.
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Teksura
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fun Fact: One rejected idea for breath 2 was to add the "Potion of Set Yourself on Fire" from Steamfront's pre-alpha. Basically, it set you on fire and you took 3 fire damage every minute for 15 minutes.

We were also thinking of making it add a damage aura to you as well.


The listing of poisons which Shadok posted is quite an old revision. It pre-dates the alchemy rebuild, and doesn't account for the three tiers of potions which we're going to have now (it lists the 3 invulnerability potions as 3 separate potions, rather than stronger/weaker versions of the same basic potion). So everyone should try to keep in mind the mechanics of the new alchemy system.




Anoint IS a serious concern for poisons. I'm not going to lie there. The easiest solution is to outright prevent it from even working at all. However, the big question we should all be asking is "What are we trying to get from this mechanic?"



Niphy suggested applying the poison to a weapon. I like that. I think it works well as a counterpart to the buffing aspect of potions.


However, in doing so we have to be careful how we balance the debuffs. Applying a poison to a weapon and making it apply 10 unsoakable damage is a hell of a lot, after all, and Potion of rotting would be downright terrifying.


We therefore need to balance them to ensure that the bonuses walk that fine line between being nice, and being brokenly overpowered.
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Aeneas
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea of enchanting a weapon with 6 Poisons (take your pick) and then attacking a Corruptor with it. Twisted Evil
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saulres
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooh, can we also poison our Blood Claws?

I also want to slip poison into foods and drink, and leave them lying about...
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Dissident
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teksura wrote:

However, in doing so we have to be careful how we balance the debuffs. Applying a poison to a weapon and making it apply 10 unsoakable damage is a hell of a lot, after all, and Potion of rotting would be downright terrifying.


Make it so that works like enchanting, not all potions can be used to enchant or get a useful effect from it. Can you enchant a weapon with a Heal Pot or a Water breathing?
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Teksura
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dissident wrote:
Teksura wrote:

However, in doing so we have to be careful how we balance the debuffs. Applying a poison to a weapon and making it apply 10 unsoakable damage is a hell of a lot, after all, and Potion of rotting would be downright terrifying.


Make it so that works like enchanting, not all potions can be used to enchant or get a useful effect from it. Can you enchant a weapon with a Heal Pot or a Water breathing?


Applying poisons to a weapon is comparable to drinking a potion. Enchantment is something else entirely. The issue we face is that if we say "you can't use this poison, this poison, or this one either", then we've lost the entire reason for adding them in the first place.
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Sweedee
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have certain tick poisons leak while carried. The poison brewer will be happy to pass the cursed item on, and at sporadic intervals the carrier will suffer a short version of the debuff.

If they're walking, they might not even 'suffer'. But in a combat scenario, if they get passed a Combat Clarity potion and were already holding four, it's hard to get rid of.

In time, all poisons will leak themselves out and end immediately. If drank, they will have the full effect.
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