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Nexus Clash :: View topic - Way of Lightning is a terrible skill
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Way of Lightning is a terrible skill
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pinecones
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:13 pm    Post subject: Way of Lightning is a terrible skill Reply with quote

Cons:
Cockblocked by water and lava
Doesn't make you immune to close range damage outside
Costs 5MP to activate
IS COMPLETE FUCKING SHIT COMPARED TO EVERY OTHER TRAVEL SKILL

I mean holy shit just look at Feet of the Wind are you fucking shitting me.


Pros:
Uh, I guess you don't need to deactivate it when you check buildings for hidden with your 60CP enhanced senses skill.

Discuss?
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Punty
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To make WoL effective, do you not have to buy swim and strength so it is effectively a 50cp travel skill for 1/2 movement?

While I have always been an advocate for silly ES buffs, I do believe WoL needs some looking at. As Pines stated it is truly the worst travel skill. Personally I would just give it 1/2 movement over all tiles (excluding void) and maybe take no damage over lava/fire.

I don't think it should grant any defence or dodge as the ES is already very well prepared in that department, but I do think the activation cost could change. 5mp for 30 minutes is just urgh, maybe 5mp to activate then it takes 2mp every 15 minutes to keep it going.
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psyduck
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only greater flight makes you immune to close range damage outside and in my opinion, greater flight isn't so good because you need to land every time you need to take the train/portal while ghostwalk can just take it without landing.

Don't ESs usually take strength and stamina anyway? Which leaves swim for an extra 10cp, I don't know if thats build threatening.
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pinecones
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

psyduck wrote:
Only greater flight makes you immune to close range damage outside and in my opinion, greater flight isn't so good because you need to land every time you need to take the train/portal while ghostwalk can just take it without landing.

Don't ESs usually take strength and stamina anyway? Which leaves swim for an extra 10cp, I don't know if thats build threatening.


Both Ghostwalk and Feet of the Wind are considered greater flight for combat outside.

I think ESs in general are pretty tight for CP, since tank class and all.
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psyduck
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ghostwalk is a great skill, though I'm pretty sure feet of the wind is lesser outside.

I'm not sure if cp is a problem since if you can fit t1 and t2 skills including swim in 250cp, it's fine for t3 skills. Or make swim buff way of water to justify the cp spent for travelling purposes? (not more dodge, something else)
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Morthalius
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

psyduck wrote:
Ghostwalk is a great skill, though I'm pretty sure feet of the wind is lesser outside.

I'm not sure if cp is a problem since if you can fit t1 and t2 skills including swim in 250cp, it's fine for t3 skills. Or make swim buff way of water to justify the cp spent for travelling purposes? (not more dodge, something else)

like all other tank classes, yes, cp is in fact a problem. I don't have room for stamina in my build at all without grinding 1000 books for the breath and lifetime cp.
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DUMBGoose
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wolf rev got swim and so should you.
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Mnky
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:14 am    Post subject: Re: Way of Lightning is a terrible skill Reply with quote

pinecones wrote:

IS COMPLETE FUCKING SHIT COMPARED TO EVERY OTHER TRAVEL SKILL


Phylacteries?
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etherealsol
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:47 am    Post subject: Re: Way of Lightning is a terrible skill Reply with quote

Mnky wrote:
pinecones wrote:

IS COMPLETE FUCKING SHIT COMPARED TO EVERY OTHER TRAVEL SKILL


Phylacteries?


I'd be extremely hesitant to consider phylactery any more of a travel skill than death itself. It cannot even truly be utilized while alive.
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Teksura
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1: Feet of the Wind is not greater flight.
2: The tank CP issue will be fixed next breath. Apologies for the inconvenience, I'm willing to say "my bad" on that one.
3: Comparing Tanks to Glass cannons doesn't work very well (Neither does the Arcane Trickster's Ghostwalk, which is basically a copy of Wings proper).


To go into more detail on issue 3, Glass Cannons are the hunter class. This is why Revs, Heralds, and Void Walkers have either passive travel skills or travel skills that work along with their regular combat buffs.


What you should be doing is comparing Way of Lightning to the travel skills of other tanks. Specifically, the Wings and Leathern Wings of the Seraph and the Infernal Behemoth.

In the classic wings case, you're basically looking at a lower activation cost up front. But it's rubbish for hunting, and needs reactivated every time you land to use a portal. On the other hand, you can pass water and void.

In Way of Lightning's case, it's great for hunting. The skill remains active as you dip in and out of buildings. The Eternal Soldier picks up Enhanced Senses at tier 2, which makes the Eternal Soldier even better at casual hunting.

To elaborate on the portal thing: Not needing greater flight also means you actually pay a lower activation cost for your travel skill the moment a portal is involved. 5 MP and 1 AP and you're good the whole trip. Those fliers? They have to pay another 1 AP and 3 MP after talking to take that portal. And they keep doing it as you add more portals to it. Just 1 portal and the ES is saving 1 MP and 1 AP. That's not bad. Lots of raids have at least 1 portal.




The water thing? I never agreed with that. This was one of those issues I raised to Bob in pre-alpha, and he didn't like the idea of an Eternal Soldier running on water. When I fought him on it, he said "designer preference", which basically means "I don't give a damn about your supporting arguments, we're doing it my way". Maybe it's time for round 2 on this matter.


You have my support on the water thing, but that's it. I think you're undervaluing the potential for hunting, and forgetting that the skill is downright cheaper than wings the moment a single portal is involved.
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rufio
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like it and it feels very balanced for all the other things you have
you dont need strength, you only need swim and swim is the best skill
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Kylinn
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be very satisfied with it if it allowed one to cross water, as it did in NW. Having to buy Swim or carry around a bunch of water breathing potions in case my Tier 3 with a travel skill runs into a rivulet is rather annoying.
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BBunin
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 here.
If we didn't have to buy swim in an already CP short build, it would be just fine.
Alternatively, you could always reduce the cost of a couple of the "Must Have" skills to give flexibility and allow us to be able to afford swim.
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toxicology
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I notice that my daily habits on my Advocate and my ES are determined, in part, by those travel skills. So the Advocate flits cheerfully across water most days, but does as much as he can outdoors (and indeed, while staying aloft), while the ES is happy enough to dodge in and out of buildings or take portals, but chooses areas and routes to avoid the things he can't WoL, like water.

It doesn't feel terrible, but I don't have a Seraph or IB to compare it with. The advocate is as close as I get. For me, WoL does feel like glass-cannon-lite, usable for hunting, though not quite in the same class as a built-out Void Walker--fair enough, those travel skills are one of the big perks of the Void Walker, at least for me.
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Morthalius
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toxicology wrote:
I notice that my daily habits on my Advocate and my ES are determined, in part, by those travel skills. So the Advocate flits cheerfully across water most days, but does as much as he can outdoors (and indeed, while staying aloft), while the ES is happy enough to dodge in and out of buildings or take portals, but chooses areas and routes to avoid the things he can't WoL, like water.

It doesn't feel terrible, but I don't have a Seraph or IB to compare it with. The advocate is as close as I get. For me, WoL does feel like glass-cannon-lite, usable for hunting, though not quite in the same class as a built-out Void Walker--fair enough, those travel skills are one of the big perks of the Void Walker, at least for me.


My main worry pertains to the aligned planes. Where not being able to cross water/lava is problematic, especially for those living on those planes.
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